the green eyed girl ([info]jandyle) wrote,
@ 2008-12-01 13:23:00
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Word help, please!
I need your help, flist!

Poll #1307439 WORD HELP
Open to: All, detailed results viewable to: All

Which is correct?

View Answers

She got a lot of flack about that comment.
7 (23.3%)

She got a lot of flak about that comment.
23 (76.7%)



I have coworkers making convincing arguements for both, but I vote #2. What say you? Answers from people who deal with this sort of question for a living especially appreciated. :)

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[info]sillyliss
2008-12-01 07:27 pm UTC (link)
I would never have thought of #2. You learn something new every day.

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[info]jandyle
2008-12-01 07:37 pm UTC (link)
Wait for lietya's full comment and you get to learn even more! I like words.

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[info]sillyliss
2008-12-01 07:43 pm UTC (link)
This makes me want to change my answer. But I suppose that would be very, very wrong. This is a real ethical dilemma I have found for myself.

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[info]lietya
2008-12-01 07:52 pm UTC (link)
Don't change it - the only way *language* changes is when people do it, and for that we need honest responses. ;)

Besides, "flack" isn't wrong. It's just less common.

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[info]sillyliss
2008-12-01 07:57 pm UTC (link)
Yes, but I want to do it like everyone else. I want to be one of *them*. Because *they* are pretty. And smart.

:)

Also, I keep thinking I am inventing new words when it turns out I'm not. What is that called? I am sure you have a word for that, yes?

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[info]lietya
2008-12-01 08:00 pm UTC (link)
"They" also say things like going out with wet hair will give you colds - pretty maybe, I'm not so sure about smart. ;)

A word for inventing new words, or for thinking you have when you didn't? The first is "to coin" a word, but the other, I don't think there's a specific label for it. Though you could make one up!

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[info]archaica
2008-12-01 08:09 pm UTC (link)
"They" also say things like going out with wet hair will give you colds - pretty maybe, I'm not so sure about smart. ;)

Hey now! My pretty and smart nurse practitioner-to-be constantly tells me to dry my hair! Watch that! :)

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[info]lietya
2008-12-01 08:15 pm UTC (link)
Um, she is indubitably both pretty and smart, but the wet hair causing colds is an old wives' tale.

(Going out with wet hair is still a bad idea because it might a) damage your hair and b) make you chilled faster, which isn't a great thing overall. But you cannot catch a cold without previous contact with the virus, obviously.)

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[info]shashalnikya
2008-12-01 07:27 pm UTC (link)
I'm going to guess that the Great Word Guru will say that both are acceptable. :)

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[info]jandyle
2008-12-01 07:28 pm UTC (link)
Well, she voted, and hasn't commented (yet) to say that either work. Maybe this time her answer doesn't contain "it depends"? ;)

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[info]shashalnikya
2008-12-01 07:30 pm UTC (link)
I checked Tha Dictionary, and it did say that "flack" is a variant of "flak," so we'll see!

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[info]jandyle
2008-12-01 07:32 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, I checked there before posting, but it didn't have a "for sure" answer, so clearly a poll was in order!

I wait with bated breath to hear if the GWG says anything more.

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[info]xjennifahx
2008-12-01 08:24 pm UTC (link)
At least you don't wait with 'baited' breath. *smiles*

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[info]lietya
2008-12-01 07:32 pm UTC (link)
She was doing her research and typing, which takes longer than clicking a poll vote. :)

(I voted, given no choice for "it depends" or "both," for the one that's numerically most common in use.)

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[info]jandyle
2008-12-01 07:38 pm UTC (link)
If I put "it depends" I wouldn't have gotten an answer from you. "It depends" is nearly always your answer. :P

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[info]lietya
2008-12-01 07:41 pm UTC (link)
True. I can't help it that things depend a lot. :)

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[info]mixed_up_media
2008-12-04 06:23 pm UTC (link)
LOL. The Great Word Guru being the book, the company, or lietya? ;)

Anyway, as I've noted, both are in fact entered, but "flack" is less common.

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[info]lietya
2008-12-01 07:31 pm UTC (link)
Both are grammatically correct. Allow me to reiterate that : FROM A PURELY USAGE STANDPOINT EITHER IS ACCEPTABLE. They are not different words, they're nothing but spelling variants of the same word.

#2 is more common and is technically more faithful to the original source (German), and I about broke out in hives when I saw this*. ;) So it depends on what arguments your coworkers are making and about what they care the most. The first documented use was 1938 and the OED has the first instance of the "flack" spelling (meaning "criticism" in that case) in 1975.


*spent some time on the phone a few months back with a very nice but unbelievably persistent old guy who kept countering proof of actual usage with "but when I saw my buddies in WWII get shot in front of me..." - which is kind of hard to argue with without coming off as a total dick.

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[info]shashalnikya
2008-12-01 07:32 pm UTC (link)
I WIN!

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[info]lietya
2008-12-01 07:34 pm UTC (link)
Well, you *are* married to me and have heard my endless yammering about what that variant information means long after anyone who isn't my husband would have taped my mouth shut. :) But congratulations! You win your very own word!!

gefloobenszpuzzle.

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[info]shashalnikya
2008-12-01 07:35 pm UTC (link)
Yay!

Both are always acceptable, and it's never lupus. :)

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[info]lietya
2008-12-01 07:38 pm UTC (link)
Words to live by.

(Sometimes it's paraneoplastic syndrome, though.)

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[info]chavvah
2008-12-01 08:10 pm UTC (link)
One day it is going to be lupus and we will all be shocked!

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[info]mixed_up_media
2008-12-04 06:24 pm UTC (link)
Well. Your response was much more interesting and detailed than mine. ;)

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[info]jandyle
2008-12-04 06:26 pm UTC (link)
Either way, it is always nice to have multiple Great Word Gurus back me up. :) I totally win all word discussions in my office with "well, my friends who work at [the dictionary] agree with me on this..."
:D

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[info]mixed_up_media
2008-12-04 06:58 pm UTC (link)
Hahaha! Well, you're welcome to quote/blame us anytime. :)

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[info]lietya
2008-12-04 06:26 pm UTC (link)
I notice you politely left off "went on for days" and "filled with shrieking." :)

I had some time to spare and the OED up on my machine anyway...

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[info]mixed_up_media
2008-12-04 07:02 pm UTC (link)
Hee. :) No, I thought it went on for exactly the right amount of time, and with exactly the right amount of shrieking. ;) (Seriously, I'm glad you did the research.)

You know, we (meaning ourselves and our fellow lexicographers) are about the only people who can honestly claim that we just *happened* to have the OED open anyway...

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[info]lietya
2008-12-04 08:08 pm UTC (link)
Awww, thank you!

You're right - I think I've run across one other person online who's ever said that, and they were some sort of obscure researcher.

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[info]mistyf2003
2008-12-01 07:44 pm UTC (link)
I've always used flak, and my AP style book backs me up on that:

"Flack is slang for press agent. Flak is a type of anti-aircraft fire, hence figuratively a barrage of criticism."

Also, on Dictionary.com, it's listed as 'flak, also flack".

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[info]ange_pange
2008-12-01 07:48 pm UTC (link)
But really, I had a hard time voting for either because I hate the word "got".

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[info]sillyliss
2008-12-01 08:12 pm UTC (link)
What I got you gotta give it to your mama. What I got you gotta give it to your papa.

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[info]ange_pange
2008-12-01 08:22 pm UTC (link)
In song it is okay.
From my 6 year old's mouth, it is "not a word" and there are "always one or more other words you can use instead"

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[info]sillyliss
2008-12-01 08:51 pm UTC (link)
Isn't that true for every word? There are a few words that have no replacement. But, the rest?

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[info]ange_pange
2008-12-01 08:52 pm UTC (link)
I think "got" is bad form. Really, I do. It irks me when people use it in spoken word. I can deal in writing, but not in formal writing. I can not stand it when people say it.

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[info]sillyliss
2008-12-01 08:55 pm UTC (link)
If ever we should meet in person, I will just...not talk. I am positive I will say "got." About a million times. In fact, I just said it to Karen before I started typing this. "I've got Squirt, Barq's, Coke, Orange Soda. I don't have any regular Pepsi, but I've got Diet. I've also got bottled water."

This, obviously, was a HILARIOUS joke between us.

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[info]ange_pange
2008-12-01 08:56 pm UTC (link)
Haha. See, I'd say "got? did you meant you just bought them? you have them? please clarify" ????

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[info]sillyliss
2008-12-01 09:01 pm UTC (link)
I suppose "got" isn't really necessary. If I wasn't so lazy with my contractions, it'd be fine to say "I have," "I have," "I have."

I have nothing.

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[info]mistyf2003
2008-12-01 09:19 pm UTC (link)
I say "got" as much as you do, if not more.

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[info]ange_pange
2008-12-01 11:21 pm UTC (link)
Maybe I'm just a jerk :(

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[info]sillyliss
2008-12-02 01:38 am UTC (link)
Are not!

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[info]ange_pange
2008-12-02 01:38 am UTC (link)
Pfft.

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[info]louboutin
2008-12-01 08:00 pm UTC (link)
I automatically associate flak with flak jacket.

She got a lot of flak jacket with that comment.

Hahahahaha.

The mental picture makes me giggle.

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[info]cabenson
2008-12-01 08:11 pm UTC (link)
Just go with "she got a lot of crap" it never fails.

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[info]baroque_n_roll
2008-12-01 11:57 pm UTC (link)
I just grunt and point in the general vicinity of the person while flinging feces.

... I, uh, don't get invited to many parties.

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[info]mixed_up_media
2008-12-04 06:20 pm UTC (link)
Both spellings are included in our dictionary, but "flack" is the "also" variant (i.e., the less common variant).

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